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Tiny Matters
Take a dive into the genes, microbes, molecules and other tiny things that have a big impact on our world with Tiny Matters. Join scientists Sam Jones and Deboki Chakravarti as they take apart complex and contentious topics in science and help rebuild your understanding. From deadly diseases to ancient sewers to forensic toxicology, Sam and Deboki embrace the awe and messiness of science and its place in the past, present, and future. Tiny Matters releases new episodes every Wednesday and is brought to you by the American Chemical Society, a non-profit scientific organization advancing chemistry and connecting the broader scientific community. Tiny Matters is produced by Multitude.
Tiny Matters
[BONUS] Mice aging in reverse and using origami to understand how a tiny organism captures prey: Tiny Show and Tell Us #10
In this episode of Tiny Show and Tell Us, we explore the science behind a very catchy headline about a drug that makes mice look more youthful and increases their life expectancies. Then we shift gears to talk about a predatory unicellular organism with a swan-like neck that rapidly extends a great distance to capture prey. Researchers used origami to understand the mechanics behind this anatomical feat.
We need your stories — they're what make these bonus episodes possible! Write in to tinymatters@acs.org *or fill out this form* with your favorite science fact or science news story for a chance to be featured in a future episode and win a Tiny Matters mug!
A transcript and references for this episode can be found at acs.org/tinymatters.
Welcome to Tiny Show and Tell Us, the bonus series where you write in with your favorite science story, fact or piece of news. We read your email aloud and then dive deeper. I'm Sam Jones, the exec producer of Tiny Matters, and today I'm here with science communicator and video producer, alex Danis, who you heard on the previous Tiny Show and Tell Us episode.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me back, sam. These are very fun. I love diving into some show and tells from listeners with you. Before we get into things, a reminder that Tiny Matters is always looking for you to write in, because that is what makes future episodes possible. You can email tinymatters at acsorg or click the Google form link that we put in the episode description. All right, I think you're up first this time.
Speaker 1:I am this time. I am so listener. Christina sent a link to a story from July of this year in Futurism, written by Noor Al-Sabai, titled Scientists Intrigued by Drug that Extended Lifespans of Mice While Keeping them Young Looking. One of the scientists said he'll take it if it's proven safe.
Speaker 2:Whoa, whoa.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. So we're going to talk about what these scientists did, but first I want to tell you a little bit about this drug and what it targets, because that's very important to understand why they did any of these experiments. Ok, let's talk about it for a sec. The first thing that you need to know are about these proteins called interleukins that act as signaling molecules regulating your immune system. This is a very simplified version of what these do. Some will upregulate, some will downregulate, but they do play a big role in your immune system. They were originally thought to be exclusively for communication between white blood cells, otherwise known as leukocytes, hence the name interleukins but now we know that they're produced by a variety of cell types, and it's a million times more complicated. And immunology is just such a beast of a field of research.
Speaker 2:I was always very intimidated by the immunologists because they A were able to keep like TD plus and TD minus and all these different cell types straight in their brain somehow and figure out all of these very complex webs of biology and interactions. So, yes, much respect to the immunologists out there.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. So let's talk about one interleukin in particular, because this is the one that is targeted by this new drug. It's interleukin-11. And we know that interleukin-11 is involved in pathways for stimulating the production of new bone marrow and platelet cells, so very important. And then it's also been shown to boost the immune system and help keep up platelet counts in cancer patients who are receiving chemotherapy.
Speaker 1:But interleukin-11 also plays a role in tissue remodeling, which includes stimulating fibrosis, which is the formation of scar tissue, and then it can also cause a lot of inflammation. So there was this hypothesis that, although it plays this really important role, especially early in life, later in life it's kind of this like and again simplifying, but kind of this bad molecule because it triggers aging-related illnesses like cardiovascular and various metabolic diseases like diabetes aging-related illnesses like cardiovascular and various metabolic diseases like diabetes. So in 2017, researchers showed that injecting mice with interleukin-11 led the mice to develop fibrosis in their heart and kidneys, which led to organ failure and then genetically removing interleukin-11, or rather the interleukin-11 receptor, so the interleukin couldn't actually bind and do anything protected against the disease, which was kind of shocking, yeah very interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so then they also injected mice with antibodies that stop interleukin activity, which either slowed or reversed the progress of fatty liver disease, pulmonary fibrosis and kidney disease.
Speaker 2:So interleukin-11, definitely important for some aspects in our body, but also maybe if you have too much or it's upregulated or it's in the wrong place can also lead to all of these diseases that we don't want.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and it seems like it's really important for all this good stuff early on in development, but then later on it's playing less of a role, doing anything that is not potentially harmful At least it appears. And again, at this point we're just talking about mice, and that is very important to keep in mind. Yes, now let's talk about the study that led to that wild headline. So in July 2024, so just a couple months ago scientists created mice where the gene for the protein interleukin-11 was deleted. And then they also treated 75-week-old mice which would be about 55 years old in human years with an injection of an anti-IL-11 or anti-interleukin-11 antibody, which blocks the effect of interleukin-11 in the body. And what they found was that getting rid of interleukin-11 has a significant impact on lifespan and health of the mice. So, specific to the drug itself, that anti-interleukin-11 antibody there's a lot of antis there, but that drug saw a median lifespan extended by 22.4% in males and 25% in females. That seems significant.
Speaker 2:That's huge, yes, and that was in mice that were treated at the 75-week time point. So they weren't given anything early in life and this was their quote-unquote 55 human years old and they get this drug and their lifespan is extended by 22% to 25%.
Speaker 1:Yes, Wow, yeah, I know. And then they also were able to see reduced muscle wasting, improvement in muscle strength and better coat condition and decreased coat loss, or rather and decreased fur loss. So they were like haughty elder mice.
Speaker 2:These are the mice you want to be in the retirement community.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly, very popular in the mouse room, and also they saw very few side effects, which was like great, yes, so on its popular in the mouse room, and also they saw very few side effects, which was like great, so on its surface. This sounds amazing, but again, we need to keep in mind that this is one study that's looking at aging, these aging related diseases, specifically and like really doing it from like a can we study the effect on aging and not just, hey, this mouse has this disease already and this is helping repair it. It's like could it be preventative? Could it actually make mice and potentially people look younger? This was a nature paper, it was a legit study, but again, it's mice, so a lot more work needs to be done to establish any safety or effectiveness in humans.
Speaker 1:Yes, also, it looks like in the futurism story itself, the only people that were really quoted were directly involved in the study, and so there is a bias there, and so, yes, this is a peer reviewed paper. However, it's always good when there are people that are really going to actively push back against this kind of research. That's like very exciting and seems really big, but not to like stomp on anyone's dreams, but like a lot of times, if it seems too good to be true, it's at least a little bit too good to be true, it's a lot more needs to happen.
Speaker 1:So yeah, is this a miracle anti-aging drug? We don't know and we're not going to know for a while. So there were press releases that I saw saying that the group is working with biotech companies to do safety testing and like try moving it into clinical trials.
Speaker 2:That seems very fast, that seems super fast to have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I don't know if there are other animal studies that they plan to do. You would think so. Yeah, I think they would have to.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so also, there was an article in the Conversation that was written about a week after the study came out by an epidemiologist saying that, even though a 25% lifespan increase sounds amazing, we need to remember to not hold our breath, because only around 5% of promising findings in animal models like mice carry over to humans. So genetically we're really similar to mice, but just because a lot of our genes are the same I mean, alex, you can obviously speak to this, but I think it's like what 97% of our genetic information is the same as a bananas or something like that.
Speaker 1:But like just because you have the genes does not mean you're using them the same or using them at all, and it's just saying there's genetic similarity. Yes, great starting point, but it's just. That is a baseline. So this is a cool finding, like I think it's undeniably cool, but whether or not it'll be relevant to us is still very unclear.
Speaker 2:When Twitter was still an active place for scientists. One of my favorite Twitter accounts was just called InMice Yep me too, and they would quote tweet papers that came out with really exciting headlines and they're just saying all caps InMice. And I think that's what this headline needs, Because, again, could be super cool, could be incredible. I think it's far away, but like I'm not a mouse and so I need more research before it helps me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I will give them credit that they do include mice in this title of the Futurism article where it says scientists intrigued by drug that extends lifespan of mice, which I'm like okay, okay, good, good. But yeah, totally. You see headlines all the time where it's like new cardiovascular drug decreases the risk of heart disease by 75%. It's like in one study done in mice. Let's not add to public distrust of science and just be realistic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, most studies are incredibly important. This is a huge step, but they're not the only step. But yeah, I don't want to discount most studies. I just want to add a little bit of that.
Speaker 1:I want to echo that sober note that you're adding. Yeah, I mean they're like part one or two to a 10-part process. Really, yes, but thank you so much to Christina for sending that link in. It was really interesting.
Speaker 2:Well, great, so our next listener who wrote in is listener Ian, and I'm going to put a tiny addition here that Ian is one of my very good friends from grad school and he is one of the friends in the group chat who's always sending out cool papers, so I am very excited for this one.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Ian. Yeah, thank you, Ian. Thank you for sending it to more than just the group chat. Yeah, so Ian wrote in. I'm still excited by the super creative and very beautiful new discovery of how a single-celled organism, Lacrymaria olor, can quickly blep out a large bit of its cell wall to use as a food-catching straw. Beautiful micrographs landed this paper on the cover of Science a bit back, and the follow-up insights that were revealed by making large origami models were a great example of interdisciplinary approaches to learning about biology.
Speaker 1:So love it.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited about this one. So we're talking about a single celled organism called Lacrymaria olor, and I want to break down this name first because I think it helps give you a visual picture of what this thing looks like. So they get their name from Latin and so it starts with lacrima, which is tear, and olor, which is swan, and so if you were to look at a picture of this, I want you to imagine a swan with its big, long neck and like a little head on it. That is really what these look like in the microscope pictures. They do have this big, elongated neck and when you look at the size of them, they extend that neck out from a teardrop shaped cell body that's about 100 microns in size, and so, compared to their size, they can extend their neck really really far, really fast. So it's sort of it was described as a blep. You can imagine it sort of punching out like I think of one of those jack in the box springs that's just like bloop, and that's that's its neck coming out.
Speaker 1:It is kind of like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this organism is a predatory ciliate, so it's covered in tiny hair-like projections called cilia, and it's predatory so it's eating stuff. So that neck is zooming out and grabbing stuff and they live in ponds and sometimes among things like decaying plants and other organic matter. So there are these little microscopic swan-looking things blepping their necks out to grab their prey from their little hair-covered bodies. So they can extend their neck to both locate and capture their prey. And they can also discharge organelles called toxicists, which have a long filament with a rod-like tip that paralyzes the prey. And there was a super hardcore line from an article about them that says the neck whips, bends, buckles and darts about until the tip, a head-like structure that senses contact with prey, locates, strikes and triggers engulfment of its prey targets.
Speaker 1:These are very intense unicellular organisms.
Speaker 2:Yes, it looks like a swan. It's as mean as a swan. It is out here, it is hunting its prey. There were a bunch of researchers, though, that wanted to understand how it was doing this and how it was making this sort of shape. Confirmation, because this is a unicellular organism that is rapidly changing its shape.
Speaker 2:So they used a combination of live imaging and other microscopy to identify a helix of pleats, folded like origami, that the organism uses to unspool its neck and snatch up food. So I think of this to sort of like a little accordion, right, it kind of looks like a helical accordion, but not quite, and so when the team was looking at this, they looked at this helical structure and they wondered if it was some sort of coil or spring and trying to figure out how it worked. Right, and I love how they came to better understanding of it, because one of the researchers went on a trip to Japan, and I am strongly in favor of the fact that, if you are stuck in a problem, you got to walk away from it and experience other things and sometimes get on a plane to the other side of the country.
Speaker 2:Exactly yes, and so one of the researchers saw chochin lanterns that are made of paper folded into pleats and he said something in his brain clicked. So he and his colleague then went to an art store and bought a bunch of paper to test this idea and they folded these sort of curved pleats in this helical shape that allowed them to better understand how this organism's neck unfolds and how that structure quickly unspools. So they really went out and they saw something in the real world. They made a connection back to this problem they were having in their lab and then they did an art project to try and figure out how this helical neck unspools and folds out. And this is cool just from a basic biology standpoint. We love better understanding of how things in our world work.
Speaker 2:But they also said that this could serve as a blueprint for new robotics that could extend and contract in things like microsurgery, and there is part of me that feels like they had to write that in to get the next grant because we have to talk about implications, and I do just love that we're understanding more about our world, but I do also think that it's a really cool potential example of biomimicry, where we're trying to solve a problem in our world and we look to how biology solves it and we take those ideas and we implement them in our engineering.
Speaker 2:So, I just I think that makes this full circle that they saw this cool organism. They wanted to understand how it worked better. They took implications from art to understand that biology and now they're taking that better understanding to go out and solve problems in engineering. And that, to me, is such a cool connection of all these things I just love. I love that this is a science story that stretches bigger than just this one paper and really again shows why it's important to connect arts and sciences and culture and all the things. Nothing exists in a vacuum.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely not in a vacuum. No, absolutely not. I mean, I think that's like something that I feel like on Tiny Matters we talk about all the time, that, like science does not exist in a vacuum. Whether we're talking about, you know, social impacts, historical relevance, the arts, things are always connected. There are so many things connected to science. There are so many things that science connects to that people don't think about either. So I loved this Again, like you need so many different types of people and brains to be able to come up with stuff that's inventive. So obviously this researcher there's something in him that has this more artistic side or like vision, because I don't know, maybe my brain does work more like that than I give it credit for. But like I don't know if I'd be that person. But how cool that you have a scientist who also has this like visual perception of things. That feels kind of unique to me to be able to figure this out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I just went to the fall ACS conference and one of the keynote speakers was Temple Grandin and her entire talk was talking about how we need different types of thinkers and visual thinkers and creative people in the sciences, that you can't just have one type of brain, you need all these brains coming together and I think this just really drives that home. Yeah, so thank you so much, ian. I appreciate that you shared the story more widely. This was it's fun, and I would encourage everyone to go and look up pictures of these organisms because they are fascinating. They're really cool looking.
Speaker 1:If you go to a link in the description to where you can find transcripts, at the bottom of the transcript of every single episode, you can find all of the references for the episode, which is great because then you can find a very cool image of this wild swan-like punching unicellular organism.
Speaker 2:I love it. Thanks for tuning in to Tiny Show and Tell Us a bonus episode from Tiny Matters, a production of the American Chemical Society.
Speaker 1:To be featured in a future episode. Send us an email with your tiny show and tell at tinymattersatacsorg, or click the Google form link in this episode's description. See you next time.
